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#1461 julezia

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:37 AM

Ossi, it's Julez here not Yaya tongue.gif Also you've confused Anybody with Ausdo.... I'm guessing that you were sleepy when you wrote this post! wink.gif
Thank you for the info, I'll get to it as soon as I have some more free time.
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#1462 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:04 PM

Damn, sorry you two. Seems my mind was somewhere completely different when I wrote my post -.-
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#1463 franzoir

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:43 PM

I promised I wouldnt read Bleach anymore but now that Jump has decided to effectively cancel one of their main flagships, I am fascinated as to see how much of a train wreck the last arc must have been.

Will probably read sometime later today. Since Bleach mainly consist of just pictures, it shouldnt take very long.
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#1464 Anybody

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:54 PM

QUOTE (franzoir @ Feb 02 2012, 06:43 AM)
I promised I wouldnt read Bleach anymore but now that Jump has decided to effectively cancel one of their main flagships, I am fascinated as to see how much of a train wreck the last arc must have been.

Its not cancelled.

Even during HM arc we knew that there are two arc left.

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Feb 01 2012, 03:25 PM)
If its true what you say Aus-san, than its worth reading alone because of Haribel . But everything sounds great, except maybe the stuff about Shunsui since I have no clue who that should be.
I just hope there will be a lot of Rangiku and Yoruichi together with Haribel again.

@Yaya: It should be around Volume 27 or so, there they begin invading Hueco Mundo.

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Feb 01 2012, 03:25 PM)
But everything sounds great, except maybe the stuff about Shunsui since I have no clue who that should be.


About shunsui we know that:
The history of him has to do with the pink cheap woman's haori shunsui keeps wearing. Kubo implied it has a "huge history" tied to Shunsui. 


Also some stuff about the new arc, alongside what was posted already before.:

- Longer than Arrancar one.
- the "new territory" is accessed through going underground from "surprisingly close" place and the whole new territory is covered in  ice, with a frozen waterfall at the end of it with the ice palace standing on top of the waterfall:

user posted image.
-What mayuri found in HM plays a huge importance and will be revealed.
- Byakuya became more "relaxed" while Renji became more strict. Renji's bankai improved and completely changed form.
- We will learn how Kenpachi became captain as well as about his sword.
- Say hello to new Mayuri:
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- The meaning behind arrancar remarks about true blood will be explained.(Namely Grand Fisher commented on  Ichigo being of "true blood")
- The misteries and reasons behind Kurosaki Masaki's death will be revealed as well as her past.
- Next antagonists (royal guards being quincies?)
user posted image
- Aizen will be back at some point.
- Urahara will be explained as well as his true allegiance and "shady goals".
- Explanation on Ryuuken, the promise he made Uryuu swear, goals, etc.



By now I am betting it will b e either:

- The "Ice Palace" entrance is below Ryuuken's clinic and Quincies are offshots of royal guards, making royal guards true quincies.
OR
- The ice palace entrance is in hueco mundo, HM used to be quincy/royalguard populated till SS took over.

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#1465 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:08 PM

Just googled who the hell Shunsui should be and now that I know who he is, I dont care about him since hes one of the most boring and useless people in this manga (wich sadly has a lot of them).

I just hope it will stay good (since I found the Fullbring Arc pretty good) and doesnt go the same way Naruto and One Piece went with becoming worse and worse. After all currently Bleach is the second best longtime manga after Fairy Tail.
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#1466 daedalron

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:38 PM

QUOTE (Anybody @ Feb 02 2012, 10:54 AM)
- Aizen will be back at some point.

I guess the name of the thread couldn't be more right... "Where no one really ever dies lol"

#1467 Anybody

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:02 PM

QUOTE (daedalron @ Feb 02 2012, 11:38 AM)
I guess the name of the thread couldn't be more right... "Where no one really ever dies lol"

Except that we know he is not dead. He can't die, literally, due to hogyoku. That was covered already. That's why he got a ridiculously long prison sentence - there's no way to actually off him.

Foreseeing some sort of heroic sacrifice from him against soul king.

Also his background and connection to Ichigo has yet to be explained and Kubo has already stated that it will be explained "near the end of the storyline" (the reason w he wanted to keep Aizen mysterious and backgroundless even after defeat)

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Feb 02 2012, 11:08 AM)
Just googled who the hell Shunsui should be and now that I know who he is, I dont care about him since hes one of the most boring and useless people in this manga (wich sadly has a lot of them).

I just hope it will stay good (since I found the Fullbring Arc pretty good) and doesnt go the same way Naruto and One Piece went with becoming worse and worse. After all currently Bleach is the second best longtime manga after Fairy Tail.


Well apparently, Shunsui is connected to Kurosaki backstory as well as Ukitake Ryuuken and Isshin in some way
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#1468 franzoir

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:31 PM

Read the fullbring arc. Took me about one and half hour to read. It starts out decently then around the time SS are reintroduce it falls off a cliff.

That indeed was a train wreck. No wonder they forced Kubo to end it. Firstly Kubo needs to stop relying on false protagonists and red herrings. Ginjo and Tsuki plot was needlessly convoluted. Really it was no better then watching an M Night Shyamalan film.

And did my eyes decieve me or did Ichigo just murder another human being? ANd apparently that is saving him.

Then the fullbringers all just disappear. Well this is the first time I have read a manga when the editors influence is so noticeable.

Also the art towards the end was shocking bad. No backgrounds, random people popping in and out of panels.

Well im glad the editors are going to have tight control over the last arc, bleach might regain the focus rescue Rukia arc had.

And for Kubo's next work he should definitely hire a writer so he can organise and express his ideas a bit more coherently.
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#1469 Anybody

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:09 PM

QUOTE (franzoir @ Feb 02 2012, 12:31 PM)
That indeed was a train wreck. No wonder they forced Kubo to end it. Firstly Kubo needs to stop relying on false protagonists and red herrings. Ginjo and Tsuki plot was needlessly convoluted. Really it was no better then watching an M Night Shyamalan film.

And did my eyes decieve me or did Ichigo just murder another human being? ANd apparently that is saving him.

Then the fullbringers all just disappear. Well this is the first time I have read a manga when the editors influence is so noticeable.

Also the art towards the end was shocking bad. No backgrounds, random people popping in and out of panels.

Well im glad the editors are going to have tight control over the last arc, bleach might regain the focus rescue Rukia arc had.

He was not forced to "cancel" or end it.

Yes. Ichigo did consciously murdered a human being. And yes it WAS saving him. That was what Ginjou wanted. Ginjou was a selfish and understandable human being , who lost everything and had his beliefs destroyed by the force he was working for. He was a being on a self-destructive pointless crusade. He wanted someone to "prove him wrong" to "put him out of his misery".

What influence? Vaizards disappeared too and reappeared. So will arrancar. Ichigo just gained a possibly valuable allies in the upcoming war.

I am sorry but you are writing bullshit now.
WE KNEW already that there are two arcs left even before arrancar arc ended.
WE KNEW FB one would be shorter and lead into the longer-than-arrancar-arc one.


There's no indication that "editors" forced Kubo to go away from his plan or something.

FB arc did what it needed to do - it developed Ichigo as character, explained Chad's powers and showed the change in SS as well as setting up possible conflict for the war and hinting at Isshin's backstory.
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#1470 franzoir

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:54 PM

QUOTE
I am sorry but you are writing bullshit now.


Woah there, calm down. I know you are an ardent bleach fan but lets not descend into pettiness.

QUOTE
He was not forced to "cancel" or end it.


Your naive. DBZ was suppose to end after Goku defeated Frieza. Think about the logic of the jump editors to "influence" Toriyama to continue for two more arc. The buu saga clearly shows a strain for Toriyama to come up with more ideas. Fact is Bleach sales are down, questionnaires are down. For a flagship series like Bleach, they are not going to outright cancel it, the editors will give him a stern telling off and the "courtesy" to end it. Hence the abrupt ending of the Fullbringer arc so he can move to final conclusion and hopefully finish on a high note.

QUOTE
Yes. Ichigo did consciously murdered a human being. And yes it WAS saving him. That was what Ginjou wanted. Ginjou was a selfish and understandable human being , who lost everything and had his beliefs destroyed by the force he was working for. He was a being on a self-destructive pointless crusade. He wanted someone to "prove him wrong" to "put him out of his misery".


You can get away with that interpretation because it is bleach. Bleach fans work on the logic of plausibility. Because there is a wafer thin plotline, you can make up any theory you want concerning Bleach and it will sound plausible. The best kind of self-indulgence.

In reality, the Fullbring arc was meaningless. It would have been better if Ichigo had gotten his powers back like manna from heaven. Kubo could get away with that rather than introducing throwaway characters and no consequences for the plotline.

Regardless, my main critique stands. Bleach has fallen into Code Geass R2 trap where we have a plot twist every week or so because that is the only way he knows how to progess a story. Dont get me wrong for a character like Aizen it was perfect but then it got repetitive fast. Gin-good guy or bad guy? Ginjou-Good guy bad guy? Urahara-Good guy or bad guy?

Any writer worth his salt knows that false protagonists and red herring are plot devices that should be used sparingly. To use it excessively makes for dull writing and a dull read. The convoluted explanations needed make it a grotesque exercise of writing.
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#1471 franzoir

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 03:36 PM

As an introductory chapter to the last arc, it was fine. However, considering what preceded it, I would of thought that Kubo would have made more of an attempt to reconstruct and maintain a semblance of a deeper plotline in Bleach if there is one.

If the last holy war is between Quincy and Shinigami (which it is looking like since only Quincy completely eradicate hollow souls) the challenge for Kubo is relating it back to how it is relevant to what has already occurred in Bleach. If not, then it will come across as episodic as the fullbring arc was and not fitting for a last arc, meaning Icihgo vs Aizen was the true ending. Also, if there is going to be a war, he needs to bring a sense of scale to it. The Espada vs Gotei self-contain battles dont cut it as a war.

Im still interested to know what the nature of the spirit king is and the zero division, if Kubo is going to explore that then he must find a way of constructing a deeper meaning for their existence rather than the likes of vastrolorde hallibel being dropped into the plot. Since I now know nothing in Bleach is ever going to be properly explained, maybe it would be best if those element are left alone and Kubo just wraps up familiar troupes fans already know.

Regardless, im going to wait till it finishes before I read it. Reading on a weekly basis is just going to needlessly frustrate me.
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#1472 Anybody

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:50 PM

I called it I called it.

Betting that this goes this way:




Considering Quincy is NOT a race. Its a teaching. And Quincy teachings came from Royal Guards/Magic Hunters

A shinigami could be a quincy.
A hollow could be a quincy.
A fullbringer could be a quincy.

Its a teaching that takes hundreds of years to hone into bloodline and it stems from an older race of "magic hunters">


My bet? Those guys are all royal guards - joining royal guard means you need to forsake your usual power set and embrace the teachings upon which quincies are based upon.

It makes a perfect sense considering the nature of fullbring and how it connects the idea of one deity connected to everything and considering quincy angelic nature of powers and how similar to fullbring in general the power is.

So royal guard would be consisting of shinigami, hollows and fullbringers having been taught in the teachings upon which quincies based theirs and augmenting their powers with it.

A perfect power for an army of someone who supposedly rules the universe..
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#1473 qrdel

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:43 AM

On the side, someone must've spanked Kubo for his obscure drawings in FB arc. I can see so much more details and depth to his drawings now.
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#1474 Anybody

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:44 AM

QUOTE (qrdel @ Feb 23 2012, 01:43 AM)
On the side, someone must've spanked Kubo for his obscure drawings in FB arc. I can see so much more details and depth to his drawings now.

Really? I thought FB arc art was an immense improvement over the previous arc, especially in terms of detail, action panels and character faces. This current arc does look like more than one step above the usual kubo art though.
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#1475 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 12:47 PM

It would surprise me if Anybodys theory is wrong after the latest chapter. The question is just what do they want? And why are they out, or who freed them? Maybe Urahara has something to do with that, or lets say I believe he does.

I didnt think the drawings in the FB arc were that bad either. You just have to look at the first chapters to see how much he has improved over time.
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#1476 Anybody

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:27 PM

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Feb 23 2012, 06:47 AM)
It would surprise me if Anybodys theory is wrong after the latest chapter. The question is just what do they want? And why are they out, or who freed them? Maybe Urahara has something to do with that, or lets say I believe he does.

I didnt think the drawings in the FB arc were that bad either. You just have to look at the first chapters to see how much he has improved over time.

Easy: those enemies hit HM and SS. Why? Why Now.

What changed in those places?

The answer is IChigo.

Ichigo turned whole HM around and now the place is controlled by Nel and Halibel and has those mayuri labs too.

Ichigo turned whole SS around from conservative medieval authoritarian regime into more liberal ways already.


Now why would RG and Soul King care?
  • Ichigo ended the status quo. He literally changed the laws of the world by his interference. Royal guards might not like all that pesky liberalism and want to "clean up" both ends of spiritual world (HM and SM) and start anew with new people "untainted" by those ideas.
  • It might also connect to Ichigo's existence. We know that there are some HUGE secrets behind his birth that according to Kubo might make us view ithe entire manga in different light. What if the very existence of Ichigo(alongside what he did) is reason enough for RG to declare war upon SS? I am beginning to think that Ichigo is some sort of SS-envisioned version of Kwisatz Haderach?
  • Upon the same thought what if the real reason for Quincy massacre was something else? Like them finding out about SS little "Ichigo project" and being loyal to the source of their teachings?


Also now I am beginning to think that this Ivan guy is NOT on the same side as those guys declaring the war. Why? He is not masked.

If those guys are RG and RG-members might be posing as regular shinigami(or even some known characters are RG members), which explains why and how they managed to enter Yamaji's place as well as Ikaku's comments on the citizens having been gathered by "one of their own", it would make sense why their identity is hidden in their "formal appearance".

Ivan is not hiding his face. He is either an ex-member/renegade who ran away or an accomplice of Ryuuken's or something like that. He is the opposite of the strict and formal way those figures greeted Yamamoto - which makes me think he is testing Ichigo.
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#1477 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:43 PM

Ok sounds plausible, but if I remember correctly the people of the Royale Realm were imprisoned there and your theory doesnt explain how they were freed. I dont think Ichigo wreaking havoc everywhere he goes would create something like that without someone noticing.
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#1478 Anybody

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:12 PM

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Feb 23 2012, 01:43 PM)
Ok sounds plausible, but if I remember correctly the people of the Royale Realm were imprisoned there and your theory doesnt explain how they were freed. I dont think Ichigo wreaking havoc everywhere he goes would create something like that without someone noticing.

Would not say "imprisoned".

All we know that to ENTER the place from our side, one needs a key.

No one said that royal guards can't "enter" back.

No one said that "all royal guards" are inside that dimension

No one said that there are no "Royal Guards" masquerading as normal shinigami. Aizen did call Urahara "Soul king's agent". That would also explain the masks and hidden identity.
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#1479 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:25 PM

Hmm In my memores they said that the people from the Royale Realm cant get out and should never get out or else hell breaks loose. Sadly I dont know who and when that was sad so I cant look it up.

But for the other two points you are right. Well lets see how it will play out.
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#1480 Anybody

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:58 AM

Now I began to think on would Ishida join the quincy side and why would he if he did.


What if Quincy Massacre happened because of Ichigo?

I am beginning to think that Ichigo is SS version of Kwisatz Haderach – some secret project of SS with intent of toppling Soul King or something similar. That would be right in the line with them declaring war upon SS and would even explain why Quincies got exterminated(if quincies were loyal to King and got their hands upon the info). Quincies might have been purged litteraly to cover up the fact of such plans existing.

It would also explain why Aizen “knew Ichigo since he was born” as well as why Ukitake and Shunsui talked that way about “Ichigo having grown up” as if they have known him for a while.

It would also explain what Ishida's grandpa said in the flashback about that "When ishida finds out the truth he will have to decide on if he wants to protect what his father wants to protect".

That would certainly shake up Ishida.
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