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well...either im overperseptive (noticed things that werent there) or its you who lacks perception (failed to notice things that were there)...

couse im pretty sure he gave some serious signals that he was falling in love for taiga throughout the series (actualy...before episode 17 you barely suspect of some situations...at ep 17 is the first clear signal of it, and after ep17 is when they become a lot more clear)... (mainly "im jealous" moments, and denial of hes feeling, but there were some more...)

(at episode 17, ryuuji is abruptly reminded that "taiga loves kitamura" and he tryes to deny it to himself for a moment...)(link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux9y3QgMpJU&feature=related *** timing: from 0:21, when he "lie to himself", to 0:34 , when he comes back to reality)

(at episode 18, when hes alone at a gynasium room with ami, he has dificulty to say that taiga loves kitamura, one example of the "im jealous" signals...right after that he play dumb as to deny that what ami says about the "house game" and "you treasure the woman your determined not to lay a hand on", even though you can somewhat notice he actualy undertands what shes talking.)(link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_JzmNPasX4&feature=related *** timing: 5:43 to 8:24 )

important: he never stoped fighting to conquer minori, even as he fallen more and more for taiga...so it may confuse a lot of ppl...but even though he never really sayd out loud that he was falling in love for taiga, and i support you in that fact, the signals he was falling for taiga are there crystal-clear in my opinion.

This post has been edited by R3104DBR on Jan 22 2010, 12:03 PM

Compare this scene (starting from Minorin and Ami's talk at the vending machines)with this scene

Minorin swears "I won't hesitate anymore! I definitely won't". This of course is regarding the "ghost" and "losing the things she can see" meaning that she was now fully willing to lose everything in order to get Takasu. This was the conviction I had been waiting on Minorin to have the entire series.

What happens after that? Well, in the very next episode she is the catalyst that finally gets Ryuuji and Taiga together. She won't let them run anymore. And yet, this is completely contradictory to the oath she shouted at Ami.

That's just terrible writing. And the latter half of Toradora! is full of it.

You think Toradora! is original in having the two main characters trying to help eachother with relationships to other people? Hell no. Watch Lovely Complex, and I'm sure there are others as well.

This post has been edited by Megiddo on Jan 22 2010, 12:41 PM

hmm...you argument sure is valid from your poin of view...but...

from my point of view:

minori really decided to fight for takasu...but on the second scene, the turn of events is that since takasu hided that he was the one who saved taiga, minori notices/confirms that there are special feelings not only from taiga towards takasu, but vice-versa as well...and she wants to know who takasu loves, her or taiga, before being hes girlfriend (if he loves her, not taiga)...but its impossible since minori, taiga and takasu have been hiding theyr feelings...so she decides to bring the truth to surface at once, and forces taiga to listen that minori dosent want taiga to hide her feelings for her sake, with the "my happines dosen't depend on anyone but me!"...

after taiga runs away, she asks takasu what is he going to do, if hes going after taiga or not...and although it dosent have any special meaning to takasu, ami or kitamura, for minori its like "chose one of us"...

on the next episode (continuation of the scene), takasu desides to go after taiga (wich means takasu loves taiga), and minori imediately face her head downwards like "so he really loves her... *hope ends*"

the rest was already explained in the other comment.

i think it wasnt "terrible writing"...more like it was uncomprehended...(yep, "And the latter half of Toradora! is full of it." ... oh! not "terrible writing", i mean its full of uncomprehended writing... )

i never sayd it was original, i sayd it dosent feel like i have seen it a billion times.
plz dont put words in my mough!

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by the way, seriously, lovely complex is a terrible example...
its a 2007 anime that has scenes (actualy, a lot of them) that look like they were made back in 1986~, togueter with dragon ball...it by itself is enough for me not to be interested in watching it... and yet not enough, ...

2-its full of crap-humor...
3-the main character girl is taller than all the guys in the 1st episode (the only i watched), not that i have anything againts real-life tall girls, but for anime, its terrible!
4-the girl actualy punches a guy to teach him how to be...a guy!...seriously, WTF!
5-acording to my knowledge (that can be wrong, and i dont fear, as my mistakes make me grow up) Lovely Complex is classified a "Shoujo"...wich means its targetet to GIRLS of aproximately 13 YEARS OLD...im a 18 years old guy, so its expected i wont like it anyway.

"-someone push the kill lovely complex button plz!" *pochi* *KA BOOM* "-thanks!"

This post has been edited by R3104DBR on Jan 22 2010, 02:55 PM

Hooray. Let's make generalizations and not even comment on specific reasons. Let's bash shoujo as a whole even though it has given us some outstanding stories (Full Moon wo Sagashite, Bokura ga Ita, Kare Kano, Kodocha, etc).

I'm kind of bewildered that you can express such disdain for "tall" anime girls.

You seemed to not have any troubles with with Taiga's brutal sword thwacking on Ryuuji, and I must say that Ryuuji is far more feminine than Ootani (main male character in LoveCom)

I'm a 23 year old guy, and I fully admit to liking shoujo, along with shounen, seinen, and josei as long as the stories are well written and the characters are entertaining.

I absolutely agree and the same thing goes for me.....but I'm about 2 years younger than you. BTW, I just absolutely love your post. Oh, LOVING SHOUJO is not a bad thing.

Other romance series that beat the crap out of Toradora are like the Honey and Clover series, Hana Yori Dango series (this is CLASSIC) and I prefer Love Hina to ToraDora any day of the week. I mean for me the romance or shall I say the sexual tension between Revy and Rock, the 2 main leads of Black Lagoon is WAY BETTER than the romance that was protrayed in Toradora.

The thing with Toradora is that its funny and it had a Shana-feel to it to some extent, those were 2 of the reasons that drew me to this series......as well as Ami but when the time came of whether I should watch this or get busy with something else......I chose lets just stop for now because it was kinda getting stale.

Wait....we are bashing the new guy way too much....please don't run away.

oh...here comes you putting words in my mough again...

1st:

shoujo = its >>>expected<<< (not a rule) that GUYs wont like it...shoujo is targeted to females...

it dosent mean that guys cant like shoujo, just that, in probability, its more likely they will prefer shounen. (shounen = anime targeted to boys)

by the way where did the "put all on a bag, what meows is the cat!" (generalization) part came from?

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2nd:

i dont dislike tall anime girls, i dislike when the main character is a girl and that girl is so overly-tall that there are no guys (usualy taller than girls by nature) taller than her.

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3rd:

what has taiga's sword to do with this discussion anyway?

"=o= ... wooo?!?! masaka??? ... forget it...i think i figured out...

you completely out-of-arguments arent you? thats why you have been putting words in my mough! your actualy trying to make some out of the blue arent you?

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4th:

i like ANIME, no matter what category they are...but neglecting advisal the companies gently give me of if its likely or not of me to like a certain anime...well...it sounds a little bad idea...

i dont know about you, but i dont want to waste time watching anime that dosent suit my taste, i cant watch all anime in the world while having a real-life to take care of you know...

for me, if the shoujo flag is there it means:
be advised, this is targeted for girls, unless a friends of yours indicated this, we recommend you to only watch its 1st ep if you have no other 1st eps with better flag to start watching.

WTF........now why did you go and make it personal !?! That is just immature and an avatar does not always reflect a person's views and likes. People who do resort to this really don't have much fire in their words and start spouting random crap.

Also.....get your facts right.........Toradora is a Shounen rom-com thats meant to be liked by guys and girls. The manga version of Toradora was serialised in the Shounen manga magazine, Dengeki Comic Gao!.

Shoujo technically means girl......yes, the target audience are girls and young ladies but then again girls like Bleach and Naruto....both are Shounen stuff. Stop generalizing like Megiddo told you. WAIT............how old are you ??

Ok guys I may be stating the obvious but if I see any more name calling or any further insults on this thread it's getting locked. Since it doesn't look like a discussion, but more along the line of feigning ignorance to what was stated in tis tread already.

Granted it was a good series at soem points, but they could of done better with the execustion in a few parts that kind of opened up a few plot inconsistencies.

So if it keeps up I'm going to close down this thread and just let it die like it should of a few months back.

uh...im pretty sure the shoujo/shounen stuff was about lovely complex, not toradora...

and i also am pretty sure what i sayd was exacly the same you sayd about girls liking naruto and bleach, so you must have misunderstood it again...plz re-read.

i already sayd how old i am, plz take the oportunity to re-read it while you re-read what i sayd about shoujo/shounen.

regards, r3104dbr.

(kid-wolf, i was unpolite with Megiddo just and only becouse he was unpolite to me in the way i hate the most... he acused/cursed me becouse of thighs he misunderstood himself and that i never really sayd...my sincere sorry...wont happen again.)

Ok just to end the bickering here it was technically baised off of a visual novel since there is a PSP version of it floating out there somewere.

Never the less the ending was decided the moment Tiaga failed to properly confess her feelings to the guy that confessed to her last year. In any case the first half was no problem since it was a romantic comedy, but than it turned into a standard everyday mellow drama that should of had a better follow through for the second half of the series.

Looks like a lot of hate for the series ... but i liked this series a lot. First 13 episode were more like comic part of the series and then story started getting drifted towards romance and intensity got better. According to me, it was quiet enjoyable anime form the start and got a lot better in the second half. Although the ending was expected from the starting but ti liked it how it developed and a lot of unexpected things happened in the end.

Although I wanted to watch only 2 episodes a day but i ended by finishing this series in 4 days.

I liked the whole anime but ending somehow turned out to be very plain or something like that didn't had any fire at all. It felt like somethin gis mising in the ending, not sure what?

What I really missed is a confession from Ami about her liking Ryuji. Nobody knew about her liking. I was expecting her to confess to Ryuji or talk to someone else to share her pain for example Minorin. Whenever Ryuji and Ami started talking and went deeper into discussion and it started getting interesting, it was always interrupted by others/event in later half of story. I wanted one complete un-interrupted talk between them.

I liked the character of the Ryuji Mother also and how she ran away from home.

Yeah I do agree that the change of Heart was not shown/executed well in the story/direction.

Overall I enjoyed a lot and was worth the hype i got about this anime from my friends.